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Crucial Oil-Sands Talks

Globeandmail.com -- By Josh Wingrove

Excerpts

Fresh out of a dinner discussion about Canada’s controversial oil sands with the third-most powerful politician in America, Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach had a quick assessment of how it went: “Better than I thought.”

"The meeting ...came at a critical time in the energy trading relationship between the two countries. Washington is considering approval of the massive Keystone XL pipeline project,"

"...learn about the oil sands, one of her nation’s foremost sources of oil."

"...his province’s economy relies squarely on U.S. energy consumers. In 2008, the U.S. bought $79.5-billion in energy from Alberta."

"the meetings are a chance to counter the allegations that the oil sands are the dirtiest oil on earth."

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Submitted Sep 09, 2010 By: UncleCurt

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,279 Points:1,144,250 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 11, 2010 11:37:06 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse MAC48: I guess the pollution by oil from the pipeline that transports oil to the Midwest or the one that spilled very close to Lake Michigan earlier in the year is really just a good reason to say "major environmental groups are opposed... therefore, we're right in building this." Hmmm. interesting logic... unless you were trying to say something I missed in your post.
MAC48 All-Star Author Dallas Posts:728 Points:499,925 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 5:13:23 PM Ignore MAC48 Report Abuse Seems to me that there are five arguments in favor of buying Canada's oil sad crude production. 1) Buying Canada's oil sand production reduces our dependence on less than friendly Middle Eastern and African sources. Without a doubt some of our dollars paying for this regions crude is being used by Islamic extremist. 2) If we do not buy Canada's oil sand production, then China will. There is a proposal to build a pipeline from Alberta to British Columbia for the express purpose of exporting oil sand crude to China at this very minute. 3) Buying Canada's oil sand crude helps support a very important neighbor's economy and allows US companies to sell goods & services for use in the development & production of those oil sand fields. 4) Building a pipeline from Alberta's oil sand fields to Beaumont, Texas employs a lot of Canadian & US workers in the short term to build the pipeline plus keeps employed the refinery workers in Beaumont. 5) Major environmental groups are opposed to both the pipeline & to oil sand crude production which means, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that building the pipeline & buying oil sand crude are the correct things for us to do.
SUPERQUACK Champion Author Sacramento Posts:3,990 Points:1,487,715 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 10:17:28 AM Ignore SUPERQUACK Report Abuse Don't know what to think about this
SVmike Champion Author California Posts:1,426 Points:307,850 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 9:33:03 AM Ignore SVmike Report Abuse Patch44: "Solar is still an option if the panels were cheaper" How would that work? We use oil (for gas) to drive our cars. Solar panels are used to generate electricity. So let's say you get a new electric car. The best time to recharge it is at night when there is excess grid capacity and (for most places) the rates are cheaper. Oh, maybe you didn't get a degree in electrical engineering and you think that it would be a good idea to pur solar panels on cars. 100% efficient solar cells yield about 1 kw per sq meter. Real solar cells are about 15-20% efficient and you'd be hard pressed to get a full sq meter of panels facing directly at the sun for more than 3-4 hrs per day. Even at 5 hrs with a full sq meter that is about 1 kw-hr per day (on sunny days). That will net you about 5 miles of travel in a real, street legal small car. Maybe you'd get that 200 days per year. So that is 1000 miles per year at the absolute maximum (realistically you'd get 1/2 to 2/3rds of that). And that's before we even consider the cost to achieve that. And the main message is that the numbers will never get much better than that until we move the earth closer to the sun or turn up the volume on the sun's rays.
SVmike Champion Author California Posts:1,426 Points:307,850 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 9:22:44 AM Ignore SVmike Report Abuse woody12345: "conservation and renewables would be even better " It would be even better than that to have conservation, renewables AND the Canadian oil sands so we could reduce the amount of OPEC oil dependence.
t_flor Champion Author Illinois Posts:2,195 Points:722,490 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 9:06:26 AM Ignore t_flor Report Abuse I'd rather buy oil from friends and neighbors...
ramammoth Champion Author Modesto Posts:1,389 Points:278,565 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 5:34:42 AM Ignore ramammoth Report Abuse Canada is a great country with a strong economy and the best banks. They know how to be good neighbors and solve problems. We should be taking notes.
toyrunner300 Champion Author Calgary Posts:3,219 Points:1,214,960 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 5:24:30 AM Ignore toyrunner300 Report Abuse Buying oil from close Canada or from far away Opec with tanker passing close to Somali water...... Seems easy to choose.....
civicdutie Champion Author Rochester Posts:3,010 Points:611,275 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 5:10:22 AM Ignore civicdutie Report Abuse Sounds like an expensive endeavor ...but I would rather buy oil from our neighbors to the north than OPEC anyday.
dad2two Champion Author Dallas Posts:1,885 Points:390,600 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:19:36 AM Ignore dad2two Report Abuse I find it hard to believe Pelosi closed her mouth long enough to listen.
FOM_Kompressor All-Star Author St. Louis Posts:603 Points:433,365 Joined:Jul 2010	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:12:57 AM Ignore FOM_Kompressor Report Abuse So put the sandwich down and get on with it.
cableman31 Champion Author New York Posts:6,584 Points:1,570,395 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:12:10 AM Ignore cableman31 Report Abuse The more oil we buy from Canada, the less we buy from OPEC. That should be a NO-BRAINER.
lleddirj Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,681 Points:1,155,455 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:12:00 AM Ignore lleddirj Report Abuse they have a dinner and we have people who can't afford to feed their familes.
Wizrd03 Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,786 Points:1,168,135 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:10:19 AM Ignore Wizrd03 Report Abuse Better to buy oil from Canada than OPEC
my2002m Champion Author Tulsa Posts:3,789 Points:1,206,570 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:10:17 AM Ignore my2002m Report Abuse More wasted taxpayers dollars on worthless Government travel.
throttle Champion Author Maryland Posts:10,421 Points:2,156,120 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:10:02 AM Ignore throttle Report Abuse We've got to try all options.
wizzard1222 Champion Author St. Louis Posts:6,224 Points:1,835,065 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:09:18 AM Ignore wizzard1222 Report Abuse ...would you buy it ???
hauler43 Champion Author Oakland Posts:7,146 Points:2,356,055 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:07:58 AM Ignore hauler43 Report Abuse Dirty and EXPENSIVE.
misterray Champion Author Oregon Posts:2,824 Points:657,740 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:07:22 AM Ignore misterray Report Abuse Oil sands are the dirtiest oil on earth.
Wildman14 Champion Author Virginia Posts:2,587 Points:628,020 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:07:09 AM Ignore Wildman14 Report Abuse In a normal market where supply and demand are in balance; I would say if it is profitable then it will be done. But in this artificial and highly manipulated market; I say see who stands to lose money (beside us, who don't really seem to matter) and you will know if it happens or not.
mreiff Champion Author Louisville Posts:3,361 Points:848,505 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:06:34 AM Ignore mreiff Report Abuse I think we need to know all of the facts before we commit too much to oil sands. This sounds too much like strip mining for coal.
karmadrome Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:1,290 Points:417,855 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:06:17 AM Ignore karmadrome Report Abuse I'd rather be dealing with Canada than the middle east.
racerdj Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:7,485 Points:1,592,585 Joined:Jun 2003	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 4:03:26 AM Ignore racerdj Report Abuse It all comes down to politics!
TommyTraveler Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:6,322 Points:1,234,330 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:59:22 AM Ignore TommyTraveler Report Abuse It has to be profitable to process.
faulkc05 All-Star Author Atlanta Posts:562 Points:193,540 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:59:08 AM Ignore faulkc05 Report Abuse I don't know too much about the oil sands, but I do know when I'm paying too much at the pump.
maske_2222 Champion Author Manitoba Posts:5,709 Points:1,158,615 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:58:58 AM Ignore maske_2222 Report Abuse Wouldn't go there...
BazooQC Champion Author Montreal Posts:7,342 Points:1,174,430 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:58:31 AM Ignore BazooQC Report Abuse Another pipeline, that should make economies passed on to us as lower Gas prices. But lower prices probably won't happen.
TAT36 Champion Author Florida Posts:4,443 Points:846,695 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:58:30 AM Ignore TAT36 Report Abuse Looks like another distraction from our real problems. Domestic supply and the taxes on it that are coming.
swepson Champion Author Greensboro Posts:3,131 Points:1,104,500 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:57:29 AM Ignore swepson Report Abuse It takes a lot of energy to get that stuff out of the sands.
REVLAW Champion Author San Antonio Posts:8,036 Points:1,541,445 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:57:11 AM Ignore REVLAW Report Abuse Nope, the dirtiest comes from the oppressive OPEC countries.
dopster Champion Author Toledo Posts:4,794 Points:1,827,600 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:56:37 AM Ignore dopster Report Abuse Will we be scraping body oil from people, next???
napermike79 Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:3,045 Points:1,370,730 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:55:46 AM Ignore napermike79 Report Abuse too expensive unless gas @ $4/gal
Patch44 Champion Author Buffalo Posts:5,603 Points:1,358,385 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:54:31 AM Ignore Patch44 Report Abuse Solar is still an option if the panels were cheaper.
SUV2009 Champion Author Orlando Posts:3,117 Points:736,690 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:54:24 AM Ignore SUV2009 Report Abuse Just go forward.
Bubba44612 Champion Author Ohio Posts:5,193 Points:1,423,020 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:51:19 AM Ignore Bubba44612 Report Abuse Bring on hydrogen power and screw oil all together!
salog Champion Author Columbia Posts:5,796 Points:1,271,030 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:49:45 AM Ignore salog Report Abuse didn't know there were problems
FocusGuy Champion Author Seattle Posts:4,909 Points:968,850 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:47:34 AM Ignore FocusGuy Report Abuse drill
gilfarm Champion Author Alabama Posts:4,626 Points:1,506,940 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:47:24 AM Ignore gilfarm Report Abuse Just be careful with the water table.
2907 Champion Author Kentucky Posts:1,525 Points:843,590 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:46:35 AM Ignore 2907 Report Abuse Still talking?
JCUBE Champion Author Michigan Posts:6,156 Points:1,456,825 Joined:Aug 2003	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:46:17 AM Ignore JCUBE Report Abuse More enviornmindless spin? If we need to import use Canada not the camel jockeys from OPEC [Edited by: JCUBE at 9/9/2010 8:48:13 AM EST]
I10Express Champion Author San Antonio Posts:6,321 Points:1,176,970 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:46:12 AM Ignore I10Express Report Abuse Why is Pelosi wasting tax dollars meeting with all the Canadian groups? Isn't screwing up the US enough for her?
Foxychic Sophomore Author Miami Posts:204 Points:65,190 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:46:06 AM Ignore Foxychic Report Abuse Stop, dont mess with it.
Gassed01 Champion Author Toronto Posts:4,078 Points:1,348,015 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:45:31 AM Ignore Gassed01 Report Abuse Maybe they're buying from Alberta, but don't US companies own parts of the many companies involved with the oil sands? OK with me. Better than paying OPEC.
lkozark Champion Author Missouri Posts:3,770 Points:978,795 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:45:26 AM Ignore lkozark Report Abuse What ever makes a profit for Big Oil will be the end solution, regardless of the impact to the consumer!
chesna Sophomore Author Scranton Posts:121 Points:559,650 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:41:27 AM Ignore chesna Report Abuse leave it alone
Agabel Champion Author Colorado Springs Posts:2,423 Points:1,126,545 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:39:44 AM Ignore Agabel Report Abuse for the US it is better than buying it from OPEC
DriveGreen Rookie Author Phoenix Posts:94 Points:224,755 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:39:34 AM Ignore DriveGreen Report Abuse Do not do it.
rosyLI Champion Author Long Island Posts:3,281 Points:616,455 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:37:19 AM Ignore rosyLI Report Abuse Canada is smart in using their own natural resources rather than being at the mercy of OPEC.
katmandue Champion Author Detroit Posts:5,754 Points:1,678,090 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:36:29 AM Ignore katmandue Report Abuse just replacing one addiction with another.
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:4,811 Points:735,660 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2010 3:35:30 AM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse Canada sand oil (to me) is better then oil from OPEC where too much of the $$MONEY$$ could filter to terrorist activities.